For our next installment of our Women in Product Management Series, I interviewed Angela Fleming, VP Product at FreeAgent.
Nicole: Welcome, Angela, thank you so much for sharing your insights and journey through the world of Product Management.
Laura: Thank you, Nicole, for having me. It’s a real pleasure to join you.
I’d love to start with how you got into Product Management.
I’ve been in Product Management for over 14 years now. I began my career somewhat by chance. My route to becoming a Product Manager was not traditional or linear. I didn’t come from a tech background, which is more conventional. I came from the business side. I worked in the automotive sector in the retail space doing marketing CRM. Then I moved to an automotive tech company where I took on a business consultancy role. I was a customer of the software, then I became a consultant helping people just like me use the software. I worked alongside different departments within the tech company, giving feedback from customers. I left that company to work for an automotive retailer startup company, starting up the business from the marketing and CRM side. It was basically an apprenticeship on building a business for me, roll your sleeves up, get into all aspects, do everything in building that up. It was a real education for me from that business perspective. While I was there, a friend reached out to say there was a Product Management role that came up and he felt that I was the ideal person for it. I didn’t know what Product Management was, but I agreed to meet with the management team, and they explained they wanted someone to look after the marketing CRM software from a Product Management perspective. Since I had a lot of experience as a user and a consultant, it seemed like a good fit.
I love how so many roads can lead to Product Management. What is it that you really love about Product Management?
When I started, I realized that I had a passion for understanding customer problems. I think that also came from my consultancy roles that I had previously. I was translating the problems and insights into what could possibly solve the problems. It allowed me to utilize my experience because the portfolio I was looking after was marketing solutions, for example automation tools, and campaign management tools , things that I used as a marketeer on a day-to-day basis. Having that domain knowledge and that in-depth understanding of the role that I was seeking to serve was very valuable. And that’s the part I really enjoy, understanding what that problem is, really digging into it by going down different routes, bringing out your assumptions, and then discovering things you didn’t even consider. That built up my experience as a Product Manager, but also my knowledge of the product development process and product strategy, thinking big picture, long term. That’s what started to really excite me.
From your past experience looking ahead, what is really inspiring you about Product Management today?
When I started, the engineering side was king. A lot of tech companies didn’t really have Product Management representation. Now, the desire for people to move into Product Management is really strong. Technology is growing so much, new startups every day, new ideas, the opportunities are fantastic. There’s a confidence—I’ve got an idea, I see a problem, I think I know how to solve it, and I’m going to put my money where my mouth is and pursue that. That’s very inspiring.
I love books and listening to podcasts. One book I always recommend is, “Escaping the Build Trap”, by Melissa Perri. I find her work very inspiring and insightful. She shares the importance of shifting focus from outputs to outcomes. That’s had a profound influence on my approach to Product Management, focusing on the value we’re bringing to the problem we’re trying to solve. She wrote another book with Denise Tilles called “Product Operations”, which is a new function I introduced into our organisation at FreeAgent at the start of the year. Her book was really insightful for our journey to move into that function as well.
Great recommendations. Can you give us some examples of how you have moved from outputs to outcomes?
At Free Agent, we use the Jobs-to-be-done framework, focusing on what job the user is trying to achieve and how best to serve that job. Your customers will have a variety of different jobs, for example core jobs that are must-haves, and more secondary jobs. We are very focused, and we use jobs-to-be-done in all aspects of the way we work. We constantly refer to it as we build a strategy around the core jobs that we’re seeking to support. It’s definitely a framework I recommend using. It helps you to really focus on that, the task of your user, your customer, and the value that you want them to have from using your solution to do that particular job. It allows you to focus on that value.
In implementing this framework, tell me about working with other stakeholders in the company. Many folks in Product Management might not have authority, but they need to influence other stakeholders. Can you share an example of how you and your team are doing that?
With the jobs-to-be-done framework, you also have the ODI, or Outcome Driven Innovation, that focuses on how well a particular job is served, the satisfaction level versus the level of importance. That’s something we introduced with our user research team in the past 18 months. We’ve been looking at that ODI analysis across different customer channels. They also use jobs-to-be-done in their ways of working, but bringing in that satisfaction versus importance level to get a scoring helps us prioritise. Our user research team is part of our design side across our product, design and engineering org, so that’s an example of us working closely together to find that information in order to make the right decisions going forward.
Let’s talk about hiring. I love that your former colleague reached out to you knowing you would be perfect. As VP, how do you hire Product Managers for your team? What are those attributes that rise to the top that you really like to see when you’re comparing candidates?
For me, it’s important to find people who are going to be the right cultural fit for our organisation. Questions allow us to get a bit more insight, like what about FreeAgent appeals to you, and can you share an example of a successful product you’ve launched? How somebody describes that gives us a lot of insight into the way they work. I’m looking for people who demonstrate strong empathy. If they cannot empathize with the customers they’re looking to serve and they can’t appreciate the different pain points they have, that’s a flag to me. Maybe that person is not right for us at FreeAgent. But they also need really good listening skills and can take on information and digest it. We are very data informed so having that analytical skill set is advantageous for the role because we use data for decision making. Being comfortable with using data is important.
Now I want to pivot to women specifically. We use this segment to encourage women to consider Product Management as a career. Do you have advice specifically for women?
Don’t think you need a tech background. I’ve demonstrated that’s not necessary. You learn the level of technical understanding you need for Product Management as you work with engineers. If you’re looking to break into Product Management, be proactive, and seek out opportunities to develop relevant skills. Demonstrate empathy, bring that insight into conversations across the business. Demonstrate openness to build trust within teams. Are there any product-related projects that you can be part of? Work alongside people in that role and observe.
There’s lots of fantastic books. I mentioned Melissa Perri. There’s also Marty Cagan and a great book by David Pereira, “Untrapping Product Teams”. And I always recommend finding a mentor. It’s good to have someone provide guidance and support and share opportunities through their networking. A mentor is a great advantage to have as you break into Product Management. That and networking which is vital. Connect with other Product Managers through industry events, online forums and professional groups. Networking is great for hearing about opportunities where you could get a recommendation. If somebody recommends you for a role, that could help you break into Product Management. Don’t be afraid to advocate for yourself. Diverse perspectives are incredibly valuable in Product Management.
I love all the insights and the book recommendations. Thank you so much for being with us and for sharing your passion with us today, Angela.
Thank you for having me, Nicole, I really enjoyed it.
