Sharpen the Saw: How Learning Fuels Product Leadership

Pinky’s Journey into Product Management

Nicole Tieche | 00:04.888–00:28.238

Hi everyone, I’m Nicole Tieche, your host of our segment, Trailblazing Women in Product Management. Today our guest is Pinky Panjwani, Director of Product Management for Striven at Miles IT. I’m very excited to have her with us to share her insights and experiences from the world of product management. So welcome Pinky.

Pinky Panjwani | 00:28.238–00:32.428

Thank you, Nicole. Thanks for having me. I’m excited to have this talk with you.

Nicole Tieche | 00:32.428–00:46.694

Yes, absolutely. I’m excited to hear more about your journey through product management. And I always love to start that journey by asking, how did you get into product management?

Pinky Panjwani | 00:46.694–00:49.486

by accident. So it was more of a natural progression. I finished my master’s in computer science. I got a job as a software developer that led me to, and it’s had the same company. I’ve been there for like 22 years now, so which is my anxiety, as you mentioned. And from there on, I went on to become a lead software engineer, started working more with designs, with system architecture.

Nicole Tieche | 00:49.486–01:13.888

That’s it.

Pinky Panjwani | 01:13.888–02:17.728

And then a couple years down the line, we had this idea for a product. We are mostly a custom software development company. But then we had an idea for a product that could help all businesses and basically help them accomplish more. That’s really our motto. So when we started talking about this product, I was again the lead on that product as a software engineer.

From there on, think it became more and more that I got involved into design, architecture, and eventually I started doing things that what you would define as product management type of things, but I didn’t know that I was doing that at the time. And then eventually when we grew as a team, I was asked to choose my own role. And it just seemed like that one was the one that aligned with what I was doing. like I said, it was just coincidental, very natural progression.

and I didn’t know that I was getting into product management when I was already doing it. So that’s really how I got into it.

Nicole Tieche | 02:17.728–02:33.146

So interesting. You were doing it without even realizing it. So, hey, let’s have the title to go along with the role. Perfect. And so now what’s really inspiring you in product management?

Pinky Panjwani | 02:33.146–04:27.554

So, you know, we have this concept of crossing the chasm. So, you know, every product or technology for that matter that needs to be adopted, whether it’s by its users or, you know, companies or businesses, there’s always this gap between your people who are your early adopters versus people that are your, you know, early majority. And that gap is, you know, what we call crossing the chasm because it’s huge and you need to

have a lot of strategies in place to kind of get from one step to the other. And it’s probably the most difficult phase to overcome. We actually call our leadership team at Striven, the Crossing the Chasm team. So I think what keeps me, what’s inspiring me right now, since that’s the question you asked me, was sort of how to cross that chasm, because we haven’t crossed it yet. So…

how to get there and that involves like a lot of reading, learning, keeping your mind open, understanding what the others are doing and seeing what are the gaps that we have that we can potentially, you know, sort of use these learnings and, you know, sort of fill those gaps. So I think that keeps me inspired because we still haven’t crossed it and I’m just waiting for the day when we say that, hey, you know, our team can be renamed to something else now. So,

So yeah, and then, like I said, because we haven’t reached there, that keeps me motivated to learn more. It keeps me engaged. And I like to read a lot of books related to product management. One of the recent books that I read, for example, it’s called, well, I have it right here, the book name. Let’s see. Growth Hacker Marketing, by this author called Ryan Holiday.

Inspiration and Motivation in Product Management

Nicole Tieche | 04:27.554–04:27.872

Yes!

Pinky Panjwani | 04:27.872–04:52.576

So it’s very interesting to me. It’s a short book, but it talks about concepts of how marketing is changing and you use your own product to market instead of the traditional style of marketing. So just reading these books, attending seminars, webinars, certifications keeps my mind open to all possibilities. And I think that’s what inspires me.

Nicole Tieche | 04:52.576–04:59.236

Very cool. I always appreciate a good book recommendation. I’m familiar with Ryan Holiday. I love how you’re talking about learning. Let’s talk more about that. It sounds like you’re really passionate about that.

Pinky Panjwani | 04:59.236–06:44.142

Right.

Yeah, I definitely am. I think it’s, I feel like it should be part of everybody’s growth journey, right? Like the product grows, you yourself have to grow alongside it. And something like, you know, continuous improvement is basically a core belief in our company, you know, all of us strive towards that, whether that is learning via books or learning via certifications or just learning by talking to each other, you know, and sharing ideas and brainstorming.

So I think that’s quite inbuilt in our company culture, you know, and I’m no different than that. So I think that has caught on to me as well. And in general, you know, that’s a passion of mine is to keep learning, keep evaluating, you know, what things I need to get better at, sort of like an introspection. And I try to do that with our teams as well, you know, which is why, you know, normally when we have these Agile sprints and you’re continuously working on things,

We take a break of a week every few sprints so that we can dedicate it to self-learning and organization and we call it sharpening the saw. So what that means is you’re taking some time off from the product and focusing on ourselves so that we can sharpen our saw like you sharpen the saw to cut the trees so that we are more effective in our work going forward.

Now this could mean different things to different people. It could be learning, it could be organization, it could be catching up with technology, whatever it is. yeah, learning is an essential part and it’s definitely a big part of me.

The Importance of Continuous Learning

Nicole Tieche | 06:44.142–06:55.735

That’s so great how you build that into the culture of your team. So it isn’t just the motto, right? You’re really living that out and making the space and the time for that with your team. That’s great. And what other skills do you find really crucial for product managers to be successful in your industry?

Pinky Panjwani | 06:55.735–07:09.486

Exactly.

Pinky Panjwani | 07:09.486–07:46.542

I think that the most crucial thing as per me is, I mean, besides all that you should have the technical know-how and, you know, besides all those other things and understanding your product, it is the ability to simplify something. Because I think generally as humans, we tend to overcomplicate things, whether it’s a new feature, whether it’s a process, and the ability to zoom out and sort of over, you know, like to simplify an overcomplicated problem.

I think that requires a special skill set because generally it’s easier to complicate things and really difficult to simplify things. So I think as a product manager, one of the crucial skills is the ability to simplify something that’s complicated, even though it may remain complicated, but for you to able to communicate that so that it’s broken down into simple pieces, that I think is an essential skill. communication is definitely key, because you’re talking to so many stakeholders, you’re talking to

Essential Skills for Product Managers

Nicole Tieche | 07:46.542–08:08.762

Yeah.

Yes.

Pinky Panjwani | 08:08.762–08:44.458

You know, people from your product team, you’re talking to engineers, you’re talking to, you know, marketing, you’re talking to sales. So you have to be talking in their language so that they can understand you, you know, so you have to keep sort of adjusting the way you speak. And of course, as a product manager, you’re responsible for the roadmap. So prioritization is definitely one of those things that you should be good at, you know, so those are some of the skills, I think.

Nicole Tieche | 08:39.24

And that simplification really goes with the communication, right? Because you need to be able to communicate that simplification that you have to break down those pieces. I like how you said that, Pinky. And now how do you help your team identify and foster skills to improve and work on?

Pinky Panjwani | 08:44.458–09:03.566

Exactly.

Pinky Panjwani | 09:03.566–11:15.566

Yeah, so again, at Myles IT, we have this culture of career development. Actually, it’s one of our beliefs that everybody has the right to build their careers, know, the way they want it to be. we, you know, so for example, if, you know, there’s a team that I manage and they report to me, we have a one-on-one conversation. The frequency can be decided on, but whatever the frequency is. And we actually have an organized project that we go over in each one-on-one meeting.

which talks about different things like the strides that you have set for yourself overall versus what you’re working on this quarter versus if there are any issues and opportunities they need to talk to me about. So this could be things like something like roadblocks in their day-to-day work, or it could be some opportunity where they’re saying that, if we do this thing this way, it might be better. So all of those things, important but not urgent things come up in these meetings.

And we discuss them. You don’t necessarily have to have solutions in those meetings, but you can go back, think about it, and reconvene. And basically, your job is to remove those obstacles. And because we are all tied together with this whole belief system that I was talking about, it’s easier to make these decisions and for everybody to get on board with it. So I think it naturally sort of

propagates throughout the teams, because everybody is doing the same thing. Like I said, learning is part of our team, so everybody has that culture of learning. And if we find that somebody’s struggling in their role, then we have certain review processes on what are the areas they’re struggling with. And if ultimately, even despite working on those for a few months, still stuff doesn’t work out.

then we try and see if there’s a better role for that person, where they would excel. So that’s really how we go about understanding the needs of the product and the needs of the team member and see how they can be adding value to each other, basically.

Fostering Team Development and Skills

Nicole Tieche | 09:03.566–09:07.486
And now how do you help your team identify and foster skills to improve and work on?

Pinky Panjwani | 09:07.486–11:10.553
Yeah, so again, at Miles IT, we have this culture of career development. Actually, it’s one of our beliefs that everybody has the right to build their careers the way they want it to be.
We, you know, so for example, if there’s a team that I manage and they report to me, we have a one-on-one conversation. The frequency can be decided on, but whatever the frequency is.
And we actually have an organized project that we go over in each one-on-one meeting, which talks about different things like the strides that you have set for yourself overall versus what you’re working on this quarter, versus if there are any issues and opportunities they need to talk to me about.

So this could be things like roadblocks in their day-to-day work, or it could be some opportunity where they’re saying that, “Hey, if we do this thing this way, it might be better.”
So all of those things — important but not urgent things — come up in these meetings.

And we discuss them. You don’t necessarily have to have solutions in those meetings, but you can go back, think about it, and reconvene.
And basically, your job is to remove those obstacles.
And because we are all tied together with this whole belief system that I was talking about, it’s easier to make these decisions and for everybody to get on board with it.
So I think it naturally sort of propagates throughout the teams because everybody is doing the same thing.

Like I said, learning is part of our team, so everybody has that culture of learning.
And if we find that somebody’s struggling in their role, then we have certain review processes on what are the areas they’re struggling with.
And if ultimately, even despite working on those for a few months, still stuff doesn’t work out, then we try and see if there’s a better role for that person where they would excel.

So that’s really how we go about understanding the needs of the product and the needs of the team member and see how they can be adding value to each other, basically.

Building Trust and Productivity in Teams

Nicole Tieche | 11:15.566–11:22.553

I love seeing how your mottos and your company beliefs are really playing out in the day to day of your teams and us really seeing that come to life. Do you see that investment in your teams really improve trust and productivity? you see it really grow and nurture your teams for the benefit of the whole company?

Pinky Panjwani | 11:22.553–11:43.928

Bye.

Mm-hmm.

Pinky Panjwani | 11:43.928–13:12.046

Yes, for sure. So I definitely think that having all these pieces put together. So one thing is you do have your belief system, right? So whatever those beliefs are, like as a company, have some beliefs. start, actually, we start every meeting with talking about the belief of the week. So whoever is leading the meeting actually talks about them and what their perspective is on that particular belief. So.

let’s say one of our beliefs is opportunities, sorry, interruptions are opportunities knocking, you know, so we don’t think of interruptions as something negative, you know, we think of them as something which we can help the person and then redirect them so that later on they feel empowered themselves to kind of help themselves or others, you know, so we don’t think of it as, this person interrupted me, this and that, you know, so I think everything is an opportunity. So since we go by that belief,

And we’ve provided sort of like the tool, you know, like the tools for either communicating your issues or, you know, the space for learning, you know, like I mentioned earlier. And the fact that we try to utilize everybody’s skills so that they sort of help in the overall scheme of the product. Having all of this in place definitely helps with trust and productivity, you know, because it just makes everything more effective and more transparent.

So I would say it definitely does help those two things that you mentioned.

Adapting to Product-Led Growth

Nicole Tieche | 13:12.046–13:30.618

That’s great. So can you give an example from your perspective, Pinky, something that you’ve learned recently, either from your team or your stakeholders, that you’re finding is improving your product development or your product leadership?

Pinky Panjwani | 13:30.618–13:41.582

Sure, it’s not a particular person, but lately in the team we’ve been having a lot of discussions about product-led growth. Right now we follow a typical sales model where you have leads, you qualify them, you go through the whole sales process demo and all the different stages of sales. lately we’ve started talking a whole lot about how Striven can sell itself.

Nicole Tieche | 13:41.582–14:29.166

Yeah.

Pinky Panjwani | 13:58.52

you know, so instead of having a typical sales model, so it’s not like the sales model is going anywhere, but we want to augment that with product led growth. So that’s something that is recently being discussed a whole lot. And I think that changes your mindset towards product development. It changes the way you think about the future and you know, where you want to see this product go. So I feel that’s definitely the thing that, you know, we’ve been talking about a whole lot.

Nicole Tieche | 14:29.166–14:36.008

Excellent. Is there any examples that you can share where you’re seeing some real traction there?

Pinky Panjwani | 14:36.008–15:04.088

so.

So we’re still in the talking phase, I would say, and more in the design phase. But a part where I see it really playing out is basically a combination of product analytics, AI, and user experience to sort of make the product more sticky. So instead of just relying on sales to make sales, you want to make the product so sticky that people refer the product.

Nicole Tieche | 15:04.088–15:06.474

Yeah.

Pinky Panjwani | 15:06.474–15:21.326

to others themselves and they stay onto the product and become a subscriber eventually. combining all those elements is something that we are currently working towards. And that is more challenging and exciting because it’s uncharted territory of sorts because we’ve just started doing product analytics and we’ve just started looking into how AI can be useful for us. And so all of those things combine and…

Nicole Tieche | 15:21.326–15:56.056

Alright.

Pinky Panjwani | 15:34.41

giving the user a tailored experience that’s personalized to them instead of a generic sort of, everybody sees this when you log in. It’s something that we are very interested in getting to fruition, getting to the step where that’s implemented. yeah, so those are the things.

Advice for Women in Product Management

Nicole Tieche | 15:56.056–16:10.692

Right, I like how you paired the very things that are challenging are what is exciting in the venture for FirstRiven right now. Well, I definitely wish you and your company luck with that as that progresses. I want to, yes, want to switch gears a little bit right now, Pinky, to some advice that you might have for women who are interested in breaking into product management.

Pinky Panjwani | 16:02.03

Good luck.

Pinky Panjwani | 16:10.692–16:22.894

Thank you.

Nicole Tieche | 16:22.894–16:26.746

especially in your industry right now. Do you have any advice for them?

Pinky Panjwani | 16:26.746–16:56.864

I wouldn’t have much of because you know gender is not something that has played a role on my mind for it’s just not a topic we talk about in our company because everybody is the same so that naturally has not occurred to me but I do realize that you know whether you know women do have a lot of things to deal with whether it’s work or you know whatever’s happening besides work and I think that in our industry we are at that time where so much can be done remotely.

Like we are having this conversation remotely. We’re not meeting each other, but we’re still sort of meeting each other. So you can literally achieve whatever you could in person remotely. And if you have that opportunity to get a job in product management or anything related to product management, if you’re interested in that, and having this sort of flexibility of either doing a hybrid or a remote work.

Nicole Tieche | 16:56.864–17:20.922

Right.

Pinky Panjwani | 17:20.922–18:23.811

that could ease out your day-to-day planning and flexibility. think that one, you should take it up and second, you should promote that in your team so that everybody has that flexibility in your team. So that’s something that I would sort of recommend for people who are stepping into this role that look for companies that promote that kind of culture. Because I think it’s important to have that space and flexibility, especially since

you can do it with technology. It doesn’t hurt anything. It doesn’t decrease your chances at performing your job well. So I would say that’s the one thing I would ask them to look for.

Nicole Tieche | 18:02.06

Very, very interesting. And so your team at Miles IT is a mostly remote team working together or a little bit of both, hybrid.

Pinky Panjwani | 18:12.89

So we have certain teams that obviously deal with infrastructure. They work in on-premise, you know, but the software team or the Striven team is entirely remote. So we all work from different parts of not just the US, but anywhere in the world. And, you know, we’ve sort of created this sort of harmony. It doesn’t matter what time zone you are in. You know, we kind of make everything happen based on the common ground that we have and excellent planning.

Nicole Tieche | 18:23.811–18:28.961

Okay.

Nicole Tieche | 18:28.961–18:42.774

Wow.

The Importance of Persistence in Product Management

Pinky Panjwani | 18:42.774–19:00.833

So, you know, so yeah, we definitely as a company, we wanna see the boundaries disappear. So that’s again, one of the things that we talk about a whole lot. So it’s definitely in our culture that especially after COVID, I’ve been working remotely since 2014. So that’s way before COVID, you know, but after COVID it just became a de facto that everybody’s working remotely so they can take care of whatever they need to take care of plus be their best at work, you know, so.

Nicole Tieche | 19:00.833–19:11.374

wow. Great.

Nicole Tieche | 19:11.374–19:12.122

Bye.

Pinky Panjwani | 19:12.122–19:24.576

So that just helps us and people can stay wherever they want to stay. And, you know, it doesn’t really hurt the team at all, you know. So I would say that look for those kind of opportunities.

Nicole Tieche | 19:24.576–19:32.058

Interesting. Great. Pinky, is there anything else that you would like to share today?

Pinky Panjwani | 19:32.058–19:44.238

I would just say that if you’re getting into product management or product management as a whole or anything related to product, it requires persistence. So I think we are in that day and age of instant gratification. Like you want to see results instantly. You want that something you do should have an immediate impact. I don’t think it works like that with products.

Nicole Tieche | 19:44.238–19:59.502

No.

Pinky Panjwani | 19:59.502–20:26.026

Yes, in the rare cases it will, but I think it requires a lot of persistence, a lot of hard work and smart work, but hard work and to get it going. So you need to have that within you, that persistence to sort of take you through the different challenges that you face as a product manager. So that’s something I think I’d like to add on to whatever else I’ve said.

Nicole Tieche | 20:26.026–20:46.188

is that you stay the course is the persistence of another. Yes.

Pinky Panjwani | 20:27.46

persistence and yes, be persistent because you’re not going to get immediate results. You have to be patient. And if you’re the kind who wants instant acknowledgement and gratification, well, what I’m imagining today is probably going to be something that comes out six, nine months down the line. So you cannot have that sort of aptitude. You should have the patience and persistence for something.

Nicole Tieche | 20:46.188–20:54.402

Wow, great.

Right.

Nicole Tieche | 20:54.402–20:54.402

longer view. I appreciate that. Excellent. Well, thank you so much, Pinky, for joining us today and for sharing your experience. And I really appreciate hearing a lot about your team and working with them. That’s really interesting.

Pinky Panjwani | 20:57.55

Thank you. Great.

Nicole Tieche | 21:15.0

Thank you to our listeners for tuning in. If you enjoyed today’s conversation, don’t forget to subscribe and stay tuned for more empowering stories from the world of product management. Until next time, I’m Nicole Tieche and this is Productside Stories.