Product Management in Agencies: Moving Fast, Thinking Smart

Introduction to Product Management in Agency Settings

Rina Alexin | 00:03.278–00:45.135

Hello everyone and welcome to Productside Stories, the podcast where we reveal the very real and raw lessons learned from product leaders and thinkers all over the world. I’m your host, Rena Lexin, CEO of Productside. And today I have the pleasure to be speaking with Anne Veidt. Anne is a seasoned product leader and strategist with over a decade of experience driving digital transformation and customer centric innovation.

She is currently the head of product strategy at Razorfish, a marketing transformation agency, which helps brands connect with people through experiences. Thanks for joining me today, Anne.

Anne Veit | 00:45.135–00:47.31

Thanks for having me, Rena.

Rina Alexin | 00:47.31–01:06.479

Yeah, and I always, so I am very excited about this conversation because man, product management plus agency approach, there’s a lot of companies out there where they don’t have the typical, I would say typical product management goal of building a one-to-many type solution, but yet you do, you just have to do it for your clients. So I’m excited to talk to you about that. But before we get started, tell me about your story.

Anne Veit | 01:06.479–01:09.934

you

Anne Veit | 01:09.934–01:16.706

Mm-hmm.

Rina Alexin | 01:16.706–01:21.761

How did you get into product management? Why this career?

Anne Veit | 01:21.761–02:22.446

It’s funny because I don’t think, I look at a lot of college graduates and they don’t always know what they’re going to do. And I think also product management, when I entered the workforce, it had taken on a different role because of technology. So I went to Indiana University, the Ernie Powell School of Journalism, was a journalism major. And I think that journalism background and always questioning why.

how, what, and also the investigative portion of it. I think that that lends itself easily into a product strategy and product management role. And I think throughout my career, it just happened to evolve that way naturally, because I gravitated towards things that were around solving problems and creating solutions. Whether it was new product development early on in my career until now.

product strategy.

Rina Alexin | 02:22.446–02:32.515

So I haven’t met that many journalism majors, but I will say that I have seen a lot of product managers and product leaders with a bit of an artistic bent. So music often comes up or theater. And I think for very similar reasons that you’re citing here, but journalism, yeah. mean, you have to have a very empathetic, curious approach, trying to figure things out, understand root causes. So.

Anne Veit | 02:32.515–02:42.773

Mm-hmm.

Anne Veit | 02:42.773–02:48.719

Yeah.

Anne Veit | 02:48.719–03:00.056

Well, and I’ve done a lot with improv and storytelling. I mean, there’s a little bit of, I would not say I’m comfortable on stage, but there you go.

Rina Alexin | 03:00.056–03:03.919

Well, definitely more than me. I am not very good improv. I do like to volunteer, but I’m very bad at it. improv aside, we’re here to talk a bit more about the agency setting for product management. And some people might think, okay, what does it even mean to product manage on behalf of a client? So could you maybe share?

Anne Veit | 03:03.919–03:16.206

you

Anne Veit | 03:16.206–03:27.886

Thank

The Journey into Product Management

Rina Alexin | 03:27.886–03:33.847

how product management in an agency setting is different from a traditional product management.

Anne Veit | 03:33.847–05:02.296

Yes, so a lot of times clients are coming to us because they have a specific need and they want to, it’s to augment existing or they want to innovate or something they want to change the direction, increase revenue, all that kind of stuff. And so there’s usually something specific that they’re coming to us for or we’re going to them and saying, hey, we can solve this problem for you.

so, and I think from an agency perspective, those core tenants of product strategy are still around, even from like a, an on client or, private side perspective. we just are accelerating it really, if you think about it, we don’t have necessarily a long runway, and the knowledge from an internal team perspective. And so.

which actually is very helpful because I think when you’re trying to dive into problems and what I reference as falling in love with the problem, it’s facing the customers. And that’s not a me quote that’s common in the industry, but when you have a bunch of people that are involved that are not so immersed in the client side and their brand, their products, sometimes they can look at it from a different perspective and it adds a lot of value.

Rina Alexin | 05:02.296–05:12.143

So Ann, your clients coming to you with problems to solve or investigate, or are they coming to you asking you for a solution?

Anne Veit | 05:12.143–05:38.55

It’s a little bit. I don’t think they they want us to investigate in terms of they’re not saying that Straight up, but that’s part of the process when we are developing a solution or an innovation or some sort of new idea for the client It’s always about the investigation or what we call discovery from the beginning

Rina Alexin | 05:38.55–05:52.439

Right. So have you ever been in a situation where a client comes to you, asks you for something, and through that project, you realize, hey, this is not going to be a great idea. It’s probably better for us to pivot, and here’s why.

Anne Veit | 05:52.439–06:30.178

Yeah, I think so. mean, for sure that’s happened. And what we tend to do is we help the client understand, hey, this is really what’s going on. We’ve met with your customers. We did focus groups. We did usability studies or whatever went into us learning about the problem. And this is what we discovered. And we think that if you do X, Y, Z, you’re going to achieve greater benefit.

from that. And so then we really do try to plug what would be a better solution.

Understanding Agency Product Management

Rina Alexin | 06:30.178–06:35.768

So you’re able to then have a voice in the solutioning. And that’s actually what I’m trying to get to because, and I think that’s maybe not even different from a lot of product teams that work for their companies around, know, they have various stakeholders who ask them for the solution and they have to go in and then say, well, actually what’s the underlying problem? So it sounds like you’re still doing that and have the ability to be a true advisor in what the solution should be.

Anne Veit | 06:35.768–06:40.143

Yeah.

Anne Veit | 06:40.143–06:47.087

Thank

Anne Veit | 06:47.087–06:54.413

Mm-hmm.

Anne Veit | 06:54.413–07:40.214

Yes. And we believe, or I believe strongly in a collaborative environment and cross-functional environment. So when I say cross-functional, creative product, data, tech, et cetera, all of us with an equal seat at the table, having an open discussion and looking at, hey, here’s some legit data on what customers are thinking.

Here are some numbers from the business. Here’s what they can and can’t do technologically. And taking all that into consideration when you’re coming up with, all right, here’s the problem we want to address. This is going to be the most impactful to the business. Here’s how we can do it.

Rina Alexin | 07:40.214–08:22.745

Okay, so that actually makes me think of something else. And this is a typical, I guess, when I talk to product leaders, there’s a, let me say it’s a controversial topic of when they are hiring for product managers, some product leaders really prioritize domain expertise because what they want is a product manager who really understands their industry, their market. And some say, no, let me just get the, it’s much,

easier to train someone on domain, let me get the product management skills of curiosity, empathy, customer understanding, because that is harder to teach. Now, since you’re working at an agency, you are working with a diverse client group, different markets, different segments. So how do you deal with the domain expertise? How do you get up to speed in a new industry, for example?

Anne Veit | 08:22.745–08:28.803

Mm-hmm.

Anne Veit | 08:28.803–08:35.235

Mm-hmm.

Anne Veit | 08:35.235–09:28.472

Well, and we still have domain experts in which the beauty of being part of the strategy discipline is you have a lot of different domain experts at your fingertips. And then plus we have a lot available in terms of research subscriptions and all of that. And so it’s not that we don’t keep domain experience at the forefront. But I would say, at least from my perspective, is that

Again, I believe in that marketplace of ideas. So a fresh look at a problem may be solved through someone that does not have a specific vertical experience. So it doesn’t mean to ignore that, you know, when someone does have that experience, but just be open to different ideas and thoughts.

Team Structure and Product Acceleration

Rina Alexin | 09:28.472–09:37.263

So let’s talk about team structure, because you started kind of talking about it. How do you structure a team to work on a client project?

Anne Veit | 09:37.263–10:19.8

And it depends upon the client, but the ideal structure will just go from there. So we like to use what I call product acceleration teams. And so it’s a cross-functional team. It usually always involves product creative, data science or data analytics, technology, user experience. And then if you think about it as…

sort of a wheel and cogs and you can move people in and out depending upon how much they’re needed. But starting with that core type group, it allows you to look at all the various aspects of a product dimensionally.

Rina Alexin | 10:19.8–10:26.645

So why do you call them product acceleration teams? Maybe go into that because I’m not too familiar with this term.

Anne Veit | 10:26.645–11:20.216

Yes, so and you know, we could we could brand it anything. But the reason why we say acceleration or I do is because a lot of times with clients you’re dovetailing into existing processes, existing sprint calendars and release schedules and all of that. And so we want clients to be able to innovate and innovate quickly, especially in today’s

emerging tech market where you need to get stuff out. We don’t have, at least in my mind, I don’t think we have the luxury of these year-long runways. It’s more like months. So how do we make a team come up with solutions, innovation, et cetera, but then speed up it getting implemented and delivered to the the bark.

Frameworks for Rapid Innovation

Rina Alexin | 11:20.216–11:23.533

pause you because I think it’s really distracting right now. Are you dealing with your dog? It’s like super distracting.

Anne Veit | 11:23.533–11:30.336

The dog. I know. He won’t leave me alone. Hold on, let me put him away.

Rina Alexin | 11:30.336–11:53.09

Okay.

Rina Alexin | 11:53.09–11:54.125

Yeah, now he’s arcing.

Anne Veit | 11:54.125–11:58.926

I knew he was doing that, though. I know.

Rina Alexin | 11:58.926–12:00.729

That’s not gonna work.

Anne Veit | 12:00.729–12:32.943

For a

Anne Veit | 12:32.943–12:36.302

My house is only so big.

Navigating Go-to-Market Challenges

Rina Alexin | 12:36.302–12:42.947

I understand. No, thank you very much. was going to see if it was going to calm down, but you’re moving a lot and it doesn’t. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I get it. OK. So the last question that I had was on product acceleration teams. I think you finished that one. What I was going to do is ask you the question. I’m going to now.

Anne Veit | 12:42.947–13:02.03

He’s an Australian shepherd, so he does not come down.

Rina Alexin | 13:02.03–13:25.411

Don’t worry, we’re going to pause and we’re going to start again. But I’m going to ask you the question about like products acceleration teams. Basically, I understand. Are there any frameworks that you think are really successful in helping you speed up the product management process when working with clients since you’re on a generally an accelerated timeline? Let me ask that question. Does that make sense? And I want you to start talking about like design thinking methodology, like why they come to you, right? Okay. We good?

Anne Veit | 13:25.411–13:29.999

Yeah.

Anne Veit | 13:29.999–13:33.774

Yeah, we’re good.

Rina Alexin | 13:33.774–13:54.659

All right, that makes a lot of sense on product acceleration teams. come to think of it, I also understand that your team essentially has a much shorter timeline, right? Clients want to see results. Are there any frameworks or strategies that you use on your team to help you, I don’t know, get to an answer faster or something that you use?

Anne Veit | 13:54.659–14:25.646

Mm-hmm.

Well, I, so we use what’s called product innovation methodology. And what this is, is essentially you have your design thinking at its core with a product lens through that. And so when you have a, that product lens on top of it, you’re thinking about, you know, I’ve referenced DVF before, but that desirable, viable and feasible.

Rina Alexin | 14:25.646–14:31.767

Say that again because I don’t think our audience necessarily heard you. DVF.

Anne Veit | 14:31.767–15:08.462

Yes, so DVF, so desirable. So what’s desirable from the customer or human centric perspective, viable from a business perspective, and then feasible. So that’s your technological feasibility. the thought is, and I agree with this, is that those are the three criteria for true innovation. Because you have a customer that wants it or needs it.

It’s going to be good for the business and you can do it. You can implement it technologically.

Rina Alexin | 15:08.462–15:16.495

Yeah, that’s a, mean, I think we teach that as basically the three points of product market fit. I guess instead of desirability, we say value or, you know, valuable, but that makes a lot of sense that, so you use essentially the product market fit triad. And is there any, is there anything that you do to maybe educate the clients sometimes when one of those doesn’t work out? I think that kind of goes to my previous question around what happens if.

The Role of AI in Product Strategy

Anne Veit | 15:16.495–15:22.628

Mm-hmm.

Anne Veit | 15:22.628–15:35.692

Mm-hmm.

Rina Alexin | 15:35.692–15:39.457

You’re hired to do something, but it’s not the right call.

Anne Veit | 15:39.457–16:36.386

Well, and I think, you know, there’s always a lot of the thinking that goes into this and smart thinking and proving out. There’s business cases that we’ll get involved in to prove out, hey, if you did do it this way, you would show return on that investment or you would see an uptick in customer loyalty or whatever, you know, KPI of the…

client is trying to get to. I would say that, at least in my experience, it’s not necessarily contentious discussion. It’s more collaborative. Everybody wants to do well. Everyone wants the customers to adopt whatever it is. And adoption of any new functionality or new features is sort of your key to success. I mean, if nobody’s using it, what are you doing?

Rina Alexin | 16:36.386–16:52.239

Yeah, I mean, that brings up another really good point. A lot of product leaders, they often struggle with the go-to-market aspect, right? Like actually getting to, they built it, they feel like they’ve validated product market fit should be there, but yet this product is sitting on the shelf. And that’s usually because, I mean, there’s a lot of culprits here, but…

Anne Veit | 16:52.239–16:56.576

Mm-hmm.

Rina Alexin | 16:56.576–17:00.419

Sometimes it’s because the go-to-market team is just not enabled or the company maybe supported the launch of the product but hadn’t really thought about the marketing budget required to now make it business as usual. So have you been in situations where you’ve built something for the client but then it’s not truly supported by the company?

Anne Veit | 17:00.419–17:18.991

Mm-hmm.

Anne Veit | 17:18.991–18:35.438

Mm hmm. Yes. And I think one thing that we do tend, we stress is your change management aspect. especially when it comes to internal products and platforms, your communications plans. and then, you know, we have an excellent, social media team and innovation team and making sure that these

and these experts are on board from day one. So again, when I talk about the product acceleration team and people moving in and out based on need, those are the kind of people that you want from day one, hey, this is what we’re doing. And they may fade out a little bit in the middle during ideation, rapid prototyping, but then they really need to play a huge role at the implementation phase and talking about

it in the market, getting interests, all that kind of stuff. especially if you need to almost train customers on how to use something, because it’s, it’s adoption is incredibly important. think people underestimate the importance of, adoption.

Data Challenges in Product Management

Rina Alexin | 18:35.438–18:49.593

So I can imagine, right, so when I talk to product managers and they have a department, an internal department that’s super happy with them and some that are not quite as happy or that they have, let’s say, friction in working together with. Does that exist? I’m just thinking you’re like a third party. So on one hand, you might have…

Anne Veit | 18:49.593–18:58.346

Okay.

Rina Alexin | 18:58.346–19:07.957

more backing and support and on the other you might not have those like deep relationships with all the other departments that are required for success of your your efforts.

Anne Veit | 19:07.957–20:00.32

Well, and I would argue that the head of product should be making those relationships. But I think what, and I kind of think about this as, I mean, it’s a good question, but I think it is the role of product because you tend to bring people together because you need to get something, because you need to innovate, you need those ideas, you need to implement.

It is in your best interest to make friends and form alliances because the goals are the same across everyone. And so really I don’t, I think when there is a world where things are contentious, you’re not doing your best work as an innovator is my thinking.

Rina Alexin | 20:00.32–20:06.591

You know, that’s interesting. What is your relationship with the head of product for your clients?

Anne Veit | 20:06.591–20:31.118

Not everyone has a head of product really with their clients. Or a lot of times it’s, you know, we’re dealing with chief marketing officers, people within their marketing teams, brand teams, et cetera. So it’s not always like there’s a one-to-one between product at Razorfish and product at the client.

Rina Alexin | 20:31.118–20:47.555

It’s interesting to me because for the, well, let me ask this question then. For the ones that do have a head of product, do they view you as like an extension? I know your client oftentimes is the marketing team, but do they partner?

Anne Veit | 20:47.555–21:22.222

they view us as an extension. my experience has been that there’s been partnership where it gets a little bit more tedious is the lower roles and making sure we compliment their team and not just take away from it. And a lot of that’s just collaboration, making people feel good. You want them to trust in.

and that you’re helping them, that you’re not trying to take away from them in any way.

Advice for Aspiring Agency Product Managers

Rina Alexin | 21:22.222–21:42.479

Yeah, and I’m sure a lot of companies turn to you for your expertise and kind of we talked about, you have a focus on innovation, on digital strategies, on experiences, and you use, you leverage internally a lot of, I would say the modern product management best practices around design thinking, cross-functional team collaboration, everything that we’ve talked about. Now, the next part on the horizon that is to do with innovation, and I know a lot of companies are trying to answer that question for the

Anne Veit | 21:42.479–21:52.128

Mm-hmm.

Rina Alexin | 21:52.128–21:58.105

themselves is how do we make the most out of the AI transformation in a way that it’s not just being part of a hype cycle that’s bringing true value to our users and our business. So I’m sure a lot of clients are asking you that question, but how do you help them then navigate AI successfully?

Anne Veit | 21:58.105–22:13.273

Mm-hmm.

Anne Veit | 22:13.273–24:40.739

Well, there’s a couple things there. So one, AI everywhere. So it’s the topic that everyone wants to talk about and be well-versed in, and not everyone is. And we tend to use AI now for a catch-all of anything innovative. Because people, if you say, well, what do you want the AI to do? And they’ll describe it. And you’re like, you don’t really need AI to do that.

So I would say, least from what I’m doing with a couple clients right now is you think about what is your AI strategy? And looking across your tech stack or your platform, and what are you trying to accomplish? Because AI is not a do this and all your AI answers will be solved. It’s a series of things. And so a lot of…

What you want AI for is around data and what it can do with that data and knowledge. And so one of the key phrases I heard at a talk a while ago was called that it was said that clients are feasting on data and starving for insights. And I think that that’s very true. So we went through, you know, in the nineties, et cetera, it was all about big data.

and how much data you have and collecting data, et cetera. And so, you know, we’ve, have a lot of data. We’ve collected a lot of data. Now, how do we get insights from that data and not only insights, but actionable insights. And I think that’s kind of where AI fits in from that perspective is that, like from a sales funnel perspective or something like that, if I know, Hey, I have this portfolio mix and

It’s really not working for me. It’s not getting me the returns I want. Can AI help looking at historical data, maybe some predictive analysis? Can it give you a better suggestion without you having to spend hours and hours doing research, et cetera? So some of that is where you want, at least for me, where you want AI playing in that space. But you need to understand, again, what do you want the AI

Anne Veit | 24:40.739–24:55.022

to do or what are the problems that you have? And AI could be one of multiple solutions.

Rina Alexin | 24:55.022–24:56.995

going to cut that out for me coughing.

Anne Veit | 24:56.995–25:01.614

Go ahead. Hey, since my dog barked, you can cough.

Rina Alexin | 25:01.614–25:19.022

It’s okay. Yeah, I don’t know. This has not happened yet to me. Leave me one sec. Let me get some more water.

Rina Alexin | 25:19.022–25:54.863

Okay, my cough has hopefully gone away. So, and I completely agree with you about the importance of data. In fact, I think a lot of companies are struggling because their data is so messy that they want to jump to the AI revolution, but they are completely unable to. The two most common data problems that we see at Productside are one, messy data.

I’m curious how you would tackle that if your client’s data is messy. And then the other one is the zero data problem, where they are entering a new market and they don’t have data. So I’m curious at your approach for both of these.

Anne Veit | 25:54.863–27:01.954

Well, and I mean, this is where things from an agency perspective, can play a role because we have Epsilon, our partner, so they have a ton of data. So we can leverage Epsilon and ask our clients to. But I would say one from a data perspective, and this is when you really need an excellent data.

team or analysis team is to make sure that you’re, because with AI more than anything, the data really needs to be pristine. And I’ve heard that actual word used a lot with regard to AI and data. And so that’s because just like anything else, garbage in, garbage out. And then it becomes many folds important when you have AI in the work.

because it’s working so fast to give you a response that it’s not, it’s just going to go based on what it knows, what you’re feeding it.

Rina Alexin | 27:01.954–27:10.947

And what about the zero? So the zero data problem you’re saying, because you’re an agency and you have access to market data that a private company may not have, that’s where you would go for it.

Anne Veit | 27:10.947–27:28.386

Mm-hmm. And I would look at where, you know, if you, from a zero data perspective, and this is not my forte, but, you know, how, what can you use, who can you reach out to in terms of organizations to get that leg up?

Rina Alexin | 27:28.386–27:50.613

Yeah, that makes sense. So Anne, let’s say that you’re talking to a product manager and they are looking for a new role and they see a role to be a product manager for an agency. What advice do you have for them? Is this the right career choice for them? What should they expect?

Anne Veit | 27:50.613–29:10.158

I product at an agency, because we have so many different clients, I find that exciting because you’re constantly being challenged. But I would say also that, and I think this is true really with product anywhere, understand that product there’s…

There’s what I call the exciting side of it. When you’re talking about product and how it works and you’re talking about design thinking and desire of viable feasible, all these things are very exciting, but then there’s your day to day, what are you doing for eight hours a day or whatever. And that can sometimes be tedious and not glamorous. be prepared for what you’re walking into. And then also,

I think with product, understand how it’s different from business analysis, from being a product owner versus a product manager versus a whatever. Understand those distinctions because there are nuances there that will be asked of you depending upon each one of those roles and just understand where they all fit.

Rina Alexin | 29:10.158–29:23.535

Do you think that there are any, from a hiring manager perspective, any traits that you look for when you’re hiring for an agency product manager that maybe a typical product manager you would, or maybe higher of a higher importance than a typical product manager?

Anne Veit | 29:23.535–30:27.544

Well, it’s interesting. when I hire, a lot of times I’ll give the interviewee a practical. I want to see, I’ll give you a problem and I want to see your thought process or on how you would go about solving it. I don’t necessarily, I won’t say I don’t care, but it’s not so much what the solution is at the end of the…

interview, it’s I want to see how you think. because I, I feel like that’s very important. it’s interesting cause you said this earlier in the conversation. you know, what’s more important, the industry, vertical experience or the product skills or whatever. I feel like if someone is a good thinker, if someone is a logical thinker, writes well, cetera.

We can teach them about the industry. There are certain things you just can’t teach someone. So, yeah.

Rina Alexin | 30:27.544–30:33.647

Yeah, I’ve heard, you know, in a curiosity being the first one of you really want to look for that. All right, and well, fascinating to talk to you about product management and agencies. Where can our listeners follow you and learn more about your work after they hear this recording?

Anne Veit | 30:33.647–30:45.985

Mm-hmm.

Anne Veit | 30:45.985–30:59.178

You can certainly message me on LinkedIn and I usually check once or twice a week. So don’t be discouraged if you don’t get an immediate response. But yes.

Rina Alexin | 30:59.178–30:59.178

Wonderful. Well, everyone, thank you all for tuning into another episode of Productside Stories. If you found our conversation valuable today, don’t keep it to yourself. Share it with a friend and make sure to subscribe to Productside Stories on your favorite platform so you don’t miss an episode. Visit us at Productside.com for more free resources, including webinars, templates, and other product wisdom.

I’m Rena Lexin, until next time, keep innovating, keep leading, and keep creating stories worth sharing.